Tag Archives: forechest

Breed Standard, Dog Shows

The Hands On Experience

May 24, 2016 Sally Gift 3 Comments

GSCA Breeder Education – 2016 GSCA National Specialty

By Sally Gift

To begin let’s start with excerpts from

Looking at Dogs in a Positive Light When Judging From the March 2015 issue of Dogs in Review magazine.

By Kathy Lorentzen

Positive and clearly explained judging can only be good for both judges and breeders, and for our breeds as well.

Have you ever noticed how easy it is for people to look at a dog and immediately point out what they don’t like about that dog? I think most often the first comments made by many people about a dog are negative. We hear an awful lot of “I don’t like” in conversations about dogs.

Probably we are all guilty of falling into the trap of finding fault, both as breeders and as judges, because finding fault is easier than finding virtue. Common faults are easily seen and identified by almost everyone, while breed-specific virtues can only be seen and appreciated by those who truly understand the breed they are looking at…Even judges (sic Breeders) with years of experience were tongue tied when forced to discuss their placements by pointing out only the virtues of each dog. They all wanted to fall back into the “I don’t like” syndrome.

…The positive mindset is not only important for judges but for breeders as well. How many times have I asked a fellow breeder, “What do you think of that dog?” only to have the first sentence come back starting with, “Well, I don’t like…” After my years of learning about positive judging and critiquing, my immediate reaction is to say, “But I want to know what you do like about that dog.” The look I get is generally priceless, but my question usually results in a thoughtful discussion of the virtue of the dog and a learning experience for both of us.

Not everyone will see the exact same virtues in every dog, and not everyone will place the same priorities on those virtues. That is why different dogs win on different days, and when the judging is positive and can be clearly explained, then no one is wrong. But regardless of differing viewpoints and priorities, striving to see dogs in a positive light can only be good for both judges and breeders, and for our breeds as well.

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In forming our concept of the Hands On experience, and in addition to focusing on judging dogs positively, we also wanted to encourage breeders and exhibitors to take the time to put their hands on dogs owned and bred by others; to learn how to feel breed specific qualities to recognize correct structure (breed type), to learn a variety of ideas and concepts from others, and to learn how to see good qualities in all dogs, our own as well as those owned by others – to learn how to develop an unbiased eye.

Now let’s move on to highlights from the Hands On experience!

I can’t possibly write about all the topics we covered, nor all the positives of the dogs presented for exam. But if I haven’t covered a topic or a point that you want to see shared here please offer that in the comment section of this article.

The Hands On experience was open forum, and participants were encouraged to come and go at will, so the group size and the participants fluctuated throughout the program. Some brought dogs who were stacked in front of the group while other participants went over those dogs, the Hands On part. Then, those who examined were asked to share their view of the positive qualities they found on the dog they examined. Discussion about the positives followed with the group at large joining the talk. While committee members, Barb Manson, Peggy Nowak and I moderated to keep things on track, the teachers here were actually the participants, the many breeders and exhibitors who shared their dogs, views, and experience. The Hands On experience lead to many various, thought provoking and enlightening discussions. The participants and their dogs were the shining stars of the experience, and we thank each and every one of you for making this one of the best GSCA Breeder Education events. We have heard a magnitude of positive feedback, and what we heard most often was indeed “best Breeder Education program ever” and “let’s do it again”!

Topics that were covered during the experience

Esther Joseph (Australia) shared many interesting points about length of body and the length and structure of the rib cage. She noted that when compared to other countries, the American Kennel Club (AKC) Gordon Setter Standard, is the only standard to to call for a length approximately to equal height, interpreted by many to mean we seek a “a square dog”.

AKC Standard – Proportion: The distance from the forechest to the back of the thigh is approximately equal the height from the ground to the withers.
Australian National Kennel Council (ANKC) Standard – Body: Moderate length.

One of the key takeaways that I would mention is the wording in the AKC standard, wording that says approximately equal, as this wording gives the Gordon room for sufficient length of body to allow for the driving stride he will exhibit if properly angled front and rear. A dog whose body is too short for the angulation of his rear can not move properly. If we were to breed for a completely square Gordon we would need to breed that dog with less angulation in the rear, so his rear stride does not interfere with his front. Perhaps we need to focus on the standard saying approximately equal and eliminate the word square from our lingo?

The AKC standard says Gordon Setter movement should be: A bold, strong, driving free swinging gait…The hindquarters reach well forward and stretch far back, enabling the stride to be long and the drive powerful. If, for example, a Gordon moves wide in the rear, or perhaps he crabs, we might consider that one of the causes could be that Gordon has too much rear angulation for the length of the body. Is this dog then too short in length (too square)?

(NOTE – as a question was raised, I did confirm the information I gave you regarding how to measure the dog’s length. I was correct, it is measured from the point of the forechest and never from the point on the shoulder joint)

Another discussion ensued on proper length, depth, and spring of rib. Here again Esther opened the chat and spoke in detail about the length of the rib cage and it’s importance for the protection of the Gordon’s vital organs (heart and lungs) when hunting in dense brush and brambles. To completely shield those organs the ribcage must be long from front to back, and we should measure this not simply by looking at the length from the side view of the dog, but also by reaching down under the dog to note how how far back the sternum extends. (The sternum being the floor of the chest, where the ribs meet underneath the dog.) The Gordon Setter needs not only his prominent forechest (for proper muscle attachment to provide reach) but also good length of the ribcage; a sternum whose length extends it’s boney protection to completely cover sensitive organs. A ribcage and which allows for the lung capacity he needs by it’s spring as well as depth for working in harsh terrain.

Barbara Manson began a discussion about short hocks by demonstrating that good quality on her dog. This led into a more in depth conversation among the group about the complete rear assembly, angulation, length of hock and sickle hocks. When viewing rear angulation we’d start at the highest point, the femur (think upper thigh) which has always been considered as the longest bone in the dog’s anatomy. The tibia and fibula (second thigh) should be second in length to the femur, and are attached to the hock which should be the shortest in this group of leg bones that contribute to rear angulation. Simple so far, right?

Standing around at rest (as opposed to lusting after a hot smelling bitch which brings every hot blooded dog up on his toes) a well built dog will naturally stand with the rear foot in a somewhat perpendicular line on the ground, right under the boney protuberance that ends at the point of the buttocks. Just like humans, dogs stand around with their feet almost directly under their butts. Why? Because that’s the dog’s column of support. So, if the second thigh (tibia and fibula) is longer than the upper thigh (femur), opposite the normal length of these bones, the only way the dog can reach his column of support is if the hock is long enough to get the foot where it needs to be – underneath the dogs butt. Proper ratio of length between upper thigh and lower thigh gives us the shorter hock we expect on our Gordon Setter. To sum it, a Gordon needs to have an upper thigh (femur) that is longer than the lower thigh (tibia and fibula), ending with a hock that is shorter than both of those bones. As a general rule, the genes that control the length of one bone are often linked to the genes that control the length of the corresponding bones so Mother Nature provides compensation when the ratio in the length of these bones gets out of whack, grow a lower thigh that’s too long for the upper thigh and Mother Nature will give you a longer hock to compensate.

Standing around ringside, looking at dogs standing in a relaxed state, the well put together dogs will be standing with their rear feet underneath the back half of the pelvis and their hocks slightly sloping – we should be able to see light between the ground and the entire length of dog’s hock. If a dog is standing with his hocks nearly flat to the ground, odds are excellent that we are looking at excessive angulation (a lower thigh that is longer than the femur).

Sickle hocks are a result of these over angulated rears. For me, sickle hocks are easily seen on the backward swing of the rear leg during movement. Instead of the joint between the lower thigh and the hock opening up into a nearly straight extended line, where the pads on the bottom of the foot end in a position that is nearly straight up (or reaching toward the sky), the sickle hock, due to the imbalanced length of the bones, at fullest rearward extension ends in a shape resembling a sickle – slightly curved instead of fully extended. No glimpse of the sky for the pads on these feet. The rear movement on the sickle hocked dog looks like the swinging of an old fashioned sickle when viewing the sickle from the side.

Our group also spent a bit of time discussing feet. We’re not going to cover all of that discussion here as this article has grown quite long. I did want to mention that I remember a brief conversation around the use of the term “cat foot”. Perhaps I remember wrong but I thought I heard someone say that “cat foot” no longer appeared in our standard. You were right, cat foot isn’t exactly right, but a reference to cat does appear. The standard says “Feet catlike in shape”.

I’m splitting this report into sections as it’s growing long, keep an eye out for Part II – The 2016 National Specialty Hands On experience in a future issue. In Part II I’ll share other discussions we held on topics like the width of jaw, angle of croup, block on block heads and vitiglio.

Sally Gift, Mesa AZ GSCA Breeder Education Committee Chair

Photos by Ben Perez

A slide show of random photos from the BOB class at the ’16 GSCA National Specialty courtesy of Ben Perez. We’ll be sharing more of these in future articles. Thanks Ben!

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Breed Standard, Dog Shows

Front & Center

April 15, 2016 Sally Gift 1 Comment

Written by Barbara Manson

As you will recall, with the last article, we were standing at the front of the dog and examining the head. Now it’s time to put our hands on his body to see if what our eyes have been telling us about him is really what he is. Imagine a beautifully manicured and sculpted specials dog, perfectly stacked, in glorious flowing coat. When we viewed him from the side, he appeared to have lots of forechest. Now we’ll see if it’s an illusion of skillful grooming or if it’s the real deal. We will not be fooled!

Photographer Bob Segal, 2015 North Country Specialty

Begin by running your hand from below the throat, down the front of the dog and between his front legs. Note the pro-sternum. It’s the prominent bump at the midline of the chest. It’s the foremost point of the dogs body. When viewed from the side, you will note that it arises at a level with, or slightly below, the point of juncture of the upper arm and the shoulder blade. The standard says “Chest deep and not broad in front; the ribs well sprung, leaving plenty of lung room. The chest reaches the elbows. A pronounced forechest is in evidence.” The chest is an extension of the dogs body. As you run your hand over this area, it should feel well developed and filled in, rather than as a hollow space between his front legs. With your eyes, examine the dogs front feet. Are they pointing straight ahead? Is the handler having difficulty correctly stacking the front or is the dog having trouble maintaining that stack comfortably? If the feet are pointing forward, and the dog is not toeing out, do the front feet appear to be rolling outward so the dog seems to be standing on the outside of his feet. These are dead giveaways that all is not right with the front. Most often this is caused by an underdeveloped chest, lack in depth of body or lack of spring of rib. If the dog had these things, they would push the elbows outward and away from the body, so the front feet would be in proper alignment. I should note here that this is not to be confused with the natural tendency of dogs, in a relaxed position, to toe out slightly. Most will do this and, by itself, should not be cause for concern, though we would prefer not to show it to the judge in the ring. Many puppies also go through developmental stages where this is common.

Photographer Bob Segal, 2015 North Country Specialty

Put your hand on the dogs body directly behind the elbow and note the depth of body. The body, or brisket, should reach the elbow. In practice, I’ve know some Gordons where the depth of body actually extended a little beyond the elbow. Next, run your hand along the upper arm and the shoulder blade. Is there approximately equal length from the point of the upper arm, down to the back of the elbow and from, once again, the point of the upper arm to the shoulder, to create the “90 degree angle” called for in the standard? If you have these things, this dog will stand, when correctly stacked, with his front legs under his withers. Imagine him, for a moment, without all the coat. Let’s say you found that proper, well developed forechest and this dog has the correct front angles. Because of these things, a “pronounced forechest will be in evidence”. You felt it and if he didn’t have the coat, you could easily see it. Given his angles, and substance, it will appear to be greater than that of the pointer. In practice, and for the purpose of discussion, these aspects are often collectively referred to as the front piece and assessed as a unit rather than separately as forequarters and chest. All the individual pieces are interrelated and responsible for how the front assembly functions.

Now, let’s turn our attention to the top line. Step away from the dog and position yourself a few feet away, looking squarely at his profile. Spend a minute or two assessing him. Note his neck, “long, lean and arched to the head”. If he is short on neck or his neck does not flow seamlessly into the topline (back) there is a problem with the shoulder. Is the topline “moderately sloping” to the tail? The standard calls for the loin to be “short and broad and not arched”. The line from withers to croup should be solid, flat and straight. The standard calls for the croup to be nearly flat, with only a slight slope to the tailhead”. The tail is an extension of the back. The standard says ” short and not reaching below the hocks”. Notice the length of body. The standard says the body should be “short from shoulder to hips”. We are looking for a dog who appears to be about as long as he is tall. At this point I will caution you not to let your eye wander to his rear extension. On a well angulated dog, there is a tendency to be fooled on body length by what’s behind him and how far his handler has stretched his rear. Look only at his height and his back to determine length of back.

Photo by Bob Segal 2015 North Country Specialty

So why is the topline so important? Years ago, I attended a seminar given by Dr. Quentin Laham. He was an expert on canine structure and movement. He always brought with him a skeleton of his German Shepherd, who he maintained, when he was alive, was an excellent example of his breed. In Dr Laham’s opinion, the back was the foundation on which the rest of canine structure was built, and I believe he was right. Without soundness, our dogs cannot do the job they were bred to do. With long backs, you can see toplines sag over time. There is a natural dip in the center of the back which is the area affected. There are exceptions to this though and I’ve known a few. I’ve also known of many where this scenario played out and was indeed the case. Short backs tend to be strong backs. If you look at the skeletal photo provided in one of the early articles, you can see the natural dip followed by a rise and slight arch of the lumbar vertebrae over the loin. The dip provides the dog with flexibility of the back for movement. You can imagine how this is used if you think of the dog at a full gallop. This area of the back and the loin are covered with muscle in a sound, fit and fully mature specimen of the breed, which lends itself to the flawless topline we are looking for.

Photo by Bob Segal, 2015 North Country Specialty

The tail should be straight. I believe an older version of the standard made reference to “collie tails”. Obviously we’ve made improvements because I haven’t seen one in years, but they are still back there. We used to see more long tails and they were most generally found on long backed dogs. The standard calls for the tail to “not be docked, thick at the root and finishing in a fine point”. It’s common to dock the tip of the tail of a puppy born with a kink. This can be done for aesthetic reasons or for the health of the puppy because, in the case of a tight kink, it can leave the pup open to skin infections at the site. A judge running his hand down the tail and measuring it against the hock can easily tell the “fine point” is not there if the tail is docked. We will talk more about tail carriage when movement is discussed in the future. Of note to exhibitors, Gordon tails are to carried “horizontal or nearly so”, so when hand stacking your dog, keep this in mind. This was definitely something I needed to work on!

MY GENES FIT! Artwork by Diane Nowak

I hope many of you are heading to Ohio for the National. Please make note of our GSCA Breeder Education “Hands On” at the show site to be held Wednesday May 11, exact time to be determined. We will be going over dogs and critiquing for positive attributes only. Also, at various times throughout the National and during the Hands on Program we’ll be measuring heights and comparing to weight for our “My Genes Fit” program demonstrating the variance in size that is correct in the Gordon Setter breed. Bring your dogs by to participate and earn your dog’s fabulous My Genes Fit tags.

We invite everyone to drop by and bring a dog if you have one. See you in Ohio!

Barbara Manson, Stoughton WI

Photographer – Bob Segal , Chicago IL

Please note: The photos in this article are provided for your viewing pleasure and are not intended to illustrate any fault mentioned in the article.

Breed Standard, Breeding, Dog Shows

The Substantial Gordon

September 17, 2015 Sally Gift 1 Comment

Here it is! The second in a series of articles by our Guest Blogger – Barbara Manson, Stoughton WI. Once again Barb shares insight about the Gordon Setter breed standard helping us to to put the words of the standard into perspective as it pertains to the many “styles” of Gordon we encounter.

The Substantial Gordon

Barbara Manson - photo by Silvia Timmermann 2014 GSCA National Specialty — Barbara Manson – photo by Silvia Timmermann 2014 GSCA National Specialty

by Barbara Manson

I want these articles to follow some kind of natural progression in regards to the way we normally assess our Gordons. Once again, I’m targeting primarily the folks new to the sport but I hope everyone takes the time to read through this. It is my intention to provide a basis for later discussion and for mentoring our “newbies”.

If you asked anyone in Gordons to define substance, the conversation would always begin with bone. This is the easiest part of substance to see. Often we tend to look at big feet and the size of the forelegs and compare our dog, who seems well endowed, to a competitors dog who is smaller and who doesn’t appear to have as much as our boy does. But, let’s stand back for a minute and really evaluate each dog rather than comparing them. When evaluating the amount of bone, you have to take into consideration the size of the dog you are looking at. Our standard describes “a good sized, sturdily built black and tan dog, well muscled, with plenty of bone and substance”. I discussed size a couple of months ago and we know, as per standard, the boys can range from 24-27 inches at the withers and bitches can be 23-26 inches. Those animals at the bottom of the standard are every bit as correct as those at the top and no preference as to size is stated in the standard. Therefore, a 24 inch boy and a 23 inch girl are considered “good sized” in terms of height. It would logically seem that the size of the feet and limbs on a 24 inch dog would not be what you would expect to see on a 27 inch dog. By standing back and evaluating the individual, you get a better perspective. Does the smaller dog look like his bone is big for his height? Perhaps, the impression you get by evaluating in this manner will leave you with the feeling he has more bone than your own dog. The amount of bone an individual dog has should always be evaluated in proportion to his height. Here’s another point related to bone we need to consider. In most species, there are gender differences as to size between males and females. This, per standard, is also relevant to to Gordon Setters. In other words, dogs should look like dogs and bitches should look like bitches. In our breeding, we all will occasionally get a dog who looks a bit “bitchy” or a bitch who looks “doggy”. We should not be striving for either. One should know instantly whether he is looking at a dog or bitch without feeling for testicles. The girls should never be expected to carry as much bone or head as their male counterparts, or vice versa. The head piece should, first and foremost always fit the body. I admit to personally being a sucker for a feminine Gordon head on the girls.

10891533_767216030024099_370482639675616211_n — This dog is bred by Debbie Cournoyer, NY. Photo by Lisa Croft-Elliot was used in a book published in the UK. Gordon Setter by Lavonia Harper.

The standard describes “plenty of bone and substance”. So what constitutes substance. There are several descriptive words and phrases in the standard that are meant to give the impression of substance. “Weight for males 55-80 pounds; females 45-70 pounds. The weight-height ratio make him heavier than the other setters.” Nowhere in the standard does it say the Gordon is the tallest of the setters. In fact, the “ideal” height for a male Irish Setter is 27 inches at the shoulder, which is considered the top of the range for a Gordon. It follows that the impression of size in Gordons must come from other factors. So what are these factors? Once again, we look to the standard.

Body
“Body – short from shoulder to hips. Chest – deep and not too broad in front; the ribs well sprung, leaving plenty of lung room. The chest reaches to the elbows. A pronounced forechest is in evidence. Loins short and broad and not arched.”

Forequarters
“The angle formed by the shoulder blade and upper arm bone is approximately 90 degrees when the dog is standing so the foreleg is perpendicular to the ground. Forelegs – big boned, straight and not bowed. Pasterns are strong, short and nearly vertical with a slight spring.”

Hindquarters
“The hind legs from hip to hock are long, flat and muscular; from hock to heel, short and strong.”
The short body (short back) not only gives the impression of strength, but is a stronger back, less likely to breakdown over time. As our dogs age, top lines tend to sag. This is especially prevalent in a longer backed dog. If we are using our Gordon in the field as they were intended, or for performance events, we want them to be sound into old age.

When viewing the dog from the side we should see a pronounced fore-chest. This is the 90 degree angle formed from the top of the shoulder blade (scapula) or withers, to the upper arm (humerus) to the back or point of the elbow. The upper arm should be approximately the same length as the shoulder blade, allowing for the front legs to be set well under the body with the elbow in an approximate line with the top of the wither. The angle formed, ideally, should be about 90 degrees (please reference the drawing). The front structure is one of those characteristics that defines a setter and sets them apart from other pointing breeds. Hence, it is also very important to breed type. I hope to discuss this further in the future. The more front angle you have, the more the appearance of substance. In the conformation ring, you may not be able to discern exactly how much fore-chest a dog has without putting your hands on him. Skillful trimming can give him the illusion of more front, even when he doesn’t have enough.

The loin is the portion of the topline from the last rib to the sacral vertebrae or the area encompassing the lumbar vertebrae. When viewed from the top, it should appear broad and substantial. From the side, it should be relatively short. The body should be deep, with brisket, or body, reaching to the elbow. There should be sufficient spring of rib so the dogs body, when viewed from over the top, has dimension and definition, and does not appear as a long narrow tube. When looking from the top, you should be able to see where the ribs end and there should be an indentation where the loin begins. The tube look is often referred to as “slab sided” and is a look far too common in Gordons. A breeder friend once referred to dogs like this as “cardboard cut out dogs”. I found this very descriptive.

Short pasterns and short hocks are indicative stamina and not speed. Compare the length of the hock in a Gordon to that of a sight hound such as the whippet or greyhound which were bred for speed.

Short pasterns and short hocks are indicative of stamina and not speed. Compare the length of the hock in a Gordon to that of a sight hound such as the whippet or greyhound which were bred for speed. We often hear the term wide thigh when referring to Gordon structure. When viewed from the side, the thigh muscle should look “wide” and developed and when viewed from the back, we should see muscle definition on an adult, conditioned dog. In general, when comparing Gordons to other breeds of setters, they should appear to have shorter, thicker musculature which leaves the impression of endurance rather than speed and this is most apparent in the rear muscling. These shorter, thicker muscles require a heavier structure or frame for muscle attachment, hence we should see more bone on a Gordon than on an Irish who has longer, thinner muscles and a longer hock. Both of these features are indicative of more speed.
The descriptions above are applicable to adult dogs and not necessarily to pups and adolescents. If you are just getting started in this sport with a young show pup, be aware that it takes time for the youngsters to fully mature and accurate assessments are sometimes difficult, if not impossible on babies. Also know that none of our dogs are perfect. This information is intended to improve our understanding of the ideal and give us a basis for evaluating our breeding stock as well as sizing up the competition at the show.

Once again I encourage any feedback or clarification you may have to offer on this subject. I want to encourage everyone to be involved in breeder education and your comments are welcome. Please have them to Sue Drum by October 12th for the November News.

(If you are not a GSCA member or would prefer, you may enter your comments here on the blog as these will also be reviewed along with those submitted through the club venue.)

Barb Manson
Kilernan@yahoo.com.

Breed Standard, Breeding, Care, Dog Shows, Field Events, Performance Events, Training, Whelping

NEWS FLASH – Gordon Setter Students & Mentors

September 10, 2015 Sally Gift 2 Comments

I started a new discussion group that you may find totally useful if you’re seriously into breeding and/or competing with your Gordon Setter. Now, I realize that many of you are not on Facebook and may well have sworn never to go there BUT you don’t have to turn into a Facebook junkie, nor do you need to accumulate a slathering of friends, but you will need to set up a Facebook account in order to view and post to the group. There are already fabulous discussions starting, questions being posed, and pictures being shared of dogs from way back, all things educational can be shared here.

Here is the link Gordon Setter Students & Mentors click here if you’d care to check it out or join the group.

Gordon Setter Students & Mentors

Description

Welcome Gordon Setter students and mentors! This group is meant to serve as a resource and learning tool for Gordon Setter fanciers who are serious students or experienced breeder/exhibitors willing to join forces where everyone can learn about and mentor the art of breeding better Gordon Setters. A place also to fine tune our skill and expertise when competing in conformation, performance or field events. Topics might include such things as genetics, structure, pedigrees, ancestors, health, and proper care, grooming, as well as training tips pertaining to competition in conformation, performance and field events. To make the most of this forum you are encouraged to submit questions, content and photos to provide examples as well as actively participate in discussions with helpful answers and guiding principles.

Things to keep in mind:

No personal attacks, ridicule, or harassment on or about another member’s post. You will be removed from the group and blocked. We don’t always need to agree and various opinions on a topic are encouraged to promote a learning environment, however remember when you are expressing an opinion to please do so in a tactful and polite manner.

Since this group is meant to serve educational purposes only, please do not submit your win photos and brags, we do love to see those and are very happy for you, but let’s post them on other forums to maintain focus here. The same would be true of those happy Gordon photos we post just for fun.

Please focus on the positive traits of any dog pictured. If you have constructive criticism always be considerate and tactful in your comments to ensure you are providing encouragement as well as an educational experience for the student. Please do share educational articles and links to other sites that will educate and promote better breeding and competition practices.

No SPAM or ads to promote the sale of merchandise or dogs. Spammers will be removed.

No personal attacks on other members! We are here to help each other learn and we will respect everyone and treat each other with dignity because of our differences, a different view could be where a new learning begins.

Enjoy!

Sally Gift, Mesa AZ

Photo by Bob Segal – 2015 GSCA National Specialty

Breed Standard

Official Standard for the Gordon Setter

September 1, 2015 Sally Gift 3 Comments

Approved October 7, 2002

Effective November 27, 2002

General Appearance: The Gordon Setter is a good-sized, sturdily built, black and tan dog, well muscled, with plenty of bone and substance, but active, upstanding and stylish, appearing capable of doing a full day’s work in the field. He has a strong, rather short back, with well sprung ribs and a short tail. The head is fairly heavy and finely chiseled. His bearing is intelligent, noble, and dignified, showing no signs of shyness or viciousness. Clear colors and straight or slightly waved coat are correct. He suggests strength and stamina rather than extreme speed. Symmetry and quality are most essential. A dog well balanced in all points is preferable to one with outstanding good qualities and defects. A smooth, free movement, with high head carriage, is typical.

Size, Proportion, Substance: Size – Shoulder height for males, 24 to 27 inches; females, 23 to 26 inches. Weight for males, 55 to 80 pounds; females, 45 to 70 pounds. Animals that appear to be over or under the prescribed weight limits are to be judged on the basis of conformation and condition. Extremely thin or fat dogs are discouraged on the basis that under or overweight hampers the true working ability of the Gordon Setter. The weight-to-height ratio makes him heavier than other Setters. Proportion The distance from the forechest to the back of the thigh is approximately equal the height from the ground to the withers. The Gordon Setter has plenty of bone and substance.

Head: Head deep, rather than broad, with plenty of brain room. Eyes of fair size, neither too deep-set nor too bulging, dark brown, bright and wise. The shape is oval rather than round. The lids are tight. Ears set low on the head approximately on line with the eyes, fairly large and thin, well folded and carried close to the head. Skull nicely rounded, good-sized, broadest between the ears. Below and above the eyes is lean and the cheeks as narrow as the leanness of the head allows. The head should have a clearly indicated stop. Muzzle fairly long and not pointed, either as seen from above or from the side. The flews are not pendulous. The muzzle is the same length as the skull from occiput to stop and the top of the muzzle is parallel to the line of the skull extended. Nose broad, with open nostrils and black in color. The lip line from the nose to the flews shows a sharp, well-defined, square contour. Teeth strong and white, meeting in front in a scissors bite, with the upper incisors slightly forward of the lower incisors. A level bite is not a fault. Pitted teeth from distemper or allied infections are not penalized.

Neck, Topline, Body: Neck long, lean, arched to the head, and without throatiness. Topline moderately sloping. Body short from shoulder to hips. Chest deep and not too broad in front; the ribs well sprung, leaving plenty of lung room. The chest reaches to the elbows. A pronounced forechest is in evidence. Loins short and broad and not arched. Croup nearly flat, with only a slight slope to the tailhead. Tail short and not reaching below the hocks, carried horizontal or nearly so, not docked, thick at the root and finishing in a fine point. The placement of the tail is important for correct carriage. When the angle of the tail bends too sharply at the first coccygeal bone, the tail will be carried too gaily or will droop. The tail placement is judged in relationship to the structure of the croup.

Forequarters: Shoulders fine at the points, and laying well back. The tops of the shoulder blades are close together. When viewed from behind, the neck appears to fit into the shoulders in smooth, flat lines that gradually widen from neck to shoulder. The angle formed by the shoulder blade and upper arm bone is approximately 90 degrees when the dog is standing so that the foreleg is perpendicular to the ground. Forelegs big-boned, straight and not bowed, with elbows free and not turned in or out. Pasterns are strong, short and nearly vertical with a slight spring. Dewclaws may be removed. Feet catlike in shape, formed by close knit, well arched toes with plenty of hair between; with full toe pads and deep heel cushions. Feet are not turned in or out.

Hindquarters: The hind legs from hip to hock are long, flat and muscular; from hock to heel, short and strong. The stifle and hock joints are well bent and not turned either in or out. When the dog is standing with the rear pastern perpendicular to the ground, the thighbone hangs downward parallel to an imaginary line drawn upward from the hock. Feet as in front.

Coat: Soft and shining, straight or slightly waved, but not curly, with long hair on ears, under stomach and on chest, on back of the fore and hind legs, and on the tail. The feather which starts near the root of the tail is slightly waved or straight, having a triangular appearance, growing shorter uniformly toward the end.

Color and Markings: Black with tan markings, either of rich chestnut or mahogany color. Black penciling is allowed on the toes. The borderline between black and tan colors is clearly defined. There are not any tan hairs mixed in the black. The tan markings are located as follows: (1) Two clear spots over the eyes and not over three quarters of an inch in diameter; (2) On the sides of the muzzle. The tan does not reach to the top of the muzzle, but resembles a stripe around the end of the muzzle from one side to the other; (3) On the throat; (4) Two large clear spots on the chest; (5) On the inside of the hind legs showing down the front of the stifle and broadening out to the outside of the hind legs from the hock to the toes. It must not completely eliminate the black on the back of the hind legs; (6) On the forelegs from the carpus, or a little above, downward to the toes; (7) Around the vent; (8) A white spot on the chest is allowed, but the smaller the better. Predominantly tan, red or buff dogs which do not have the typical pattern of markings of a Gordon Setter are ineligible for showing and undesirable for breeding. Predominantly tan, red or buff dogs are ineligible for showing and undesirable for breeding.

Gait: A bold, strong, driving free swinging gait. The head is carried up and the tail “flags” constantly while the dog is in motion. When viewed from the front, the forefeet move up and down in straight lines so that the shoulder, elbow and pastern joints are approximately in line. When viewed from the rear the hock, stifle and hip joints are approximately in line. Thus the dog moves in a straight pattern forward without throwing the feet in or out. When viewed from the side, the forefeet are seen to lift up and reach forward to compensate for the driving hindquarters. The hindquarters reach well forward and stretch far back, enabling the stride to be long and the drive powerful. The overall appearance of the moving dog is one of smooth flowing, well balanced rhythm, in which the action is pleasing to the eye, effortless, economical and harmonious.

Temperament: The Gordon Setter is alert, gay, interested, and confident. He is fearless and willing, intelligent and capable. He is loyal and affectionate, and strong minded enough to stand the rigors of training.

Disqualification: Predominantly tan, red or buff dogs.

Scale of Points

To be used as a guide when judging the Gordon Setter:

10 Head and neck (include ears and eyes)

15 Body

10 Shoulders, forelegs, forefeet

10 Hind legs and feet

5 Tail

8 Coat

5 Color and markings

10 Temperament

15 Size, general appearance

12 Gait

100 Total

Approved October 7, 2002

Effective November 27, 2002

Breed Standard, Breeding, Dog Shows

That Elusive Front

January 26, 2015 Sally Gift 3 Comments

Let’s get right to the tough stuff today. One of the hardest things for a breeder to accomplish is to consistently breed and retain excellent front end assemblies generation after generation. There are just so very many moving parts to the front. In my mind, as Gordon Setter breeders we will never be able to take our eye off the mark if we are going to continue to produce sound Gordon Setters who are capable of performing in the field as intended.

We’ll do our best on this blog to present as much resource material for your learning experience as we can, obviously it will take time to accumulate that material. Today I’m starting a discussion on fronts with two well written articles by Patricia V. Trotter, a longtime breeder of Norwegian Elkhounds who is approved to judge more than 20 breeds. She is the author of Born to Win.

In the first article titled Putting Up a Good Front Patricia makes a point that rang true for me “Among the experts whom you should treasure and whose opinions you should utilize are those who truly understand front-end assembly and who reward it in the ring whenever possible.”

Patricia went on to say “a correctly made animal with functional and efficient side gait has much more opportunity for error when viewed coming toward you than a straighter-angled dog has.” Let’s not make the mistake in our Gordon Setters of assuming every clean moving front coming toward us is properly angled with appropriate reach off the side.

I agree with Patricia when she says “as guardians of our breeds, we must explore what we can do as fanciers to protect well-made fronts“.

The second article by Patricia It’s Whats Up Front That Counts she continues to provide us with sound advice on the importance of the properly constructed front and makes a very valid point in reference to Setters. “For example, consider the three setter breeds, which were bred to crouch near the birds while the hunter quietly approached with nets to throw over the dogs and the birds. These flexible sporting dogs further utilized their correct angles to lower themselves and crawl out from under the nets in that pre-gun era, leaving the captured birds for the huntsman. Now flash forward to a lineup of setters standing tall and proud in the modern show ring. Chances are that only a precious few have correct shoulder angulation, while there are others that stand out because they are jacked up on incorrect, upright shoulders that contribute to the facade of the show dog.”

I’ll let you go now so you can read Patricia’s words of wisdom. I hope we’ve provided some food for thought here today, and that you’ll share your own comments, opinions, or questions in our comment section below to keep the dialog going!

Sally Gift

To go directly to the AKC website where these articles are located move your cursor to the title of the article and click on the underlined title.